Polish foreign minister: Ukraine ‘has every right to defend itself’ by striking in Russia

Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he’s drawing up a “comprehensive plan” for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end. Poland has been a staunch supporter of Ukraine in its war with Russia and has taken in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees. Geoff Bennett discussed more with Radosław Sikorski, Poland’s foreign minister.
Geoff Bennett:
Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he’s drawing up a comprehensive plan for how Kyiv believes the war with Russia should end. Poland has been a staunch supporter of Ukraine in its war with Russia and has taken in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees.
For some perspective on all of this, we turn now to Radosław Sikorski, Poland’s foreign minister.
Thank you for coming in.
Radosław Sikorski, Polish Foreign Minister:
My pleasure.
Geoff Bennett:
So, President Zelenskyy will soon make public his plan for ending the war in Ukraine.
What are your expectations for the eventual outcome of this conflict and how is Poland preparing for best-case and worst-case scenarios?
Radosław Sikorski:
By the way, it’s 1.6 million Ukrainian refugees in Poland and without a single refugee camp because we took them all into our homes.
Poland alone has provided $4 billion worth of military assistance to Ukraine. And, of course, war is never won by a single factor, some single bullet. It’s a combination of things.
I was in Kyiv just last week. And what was — what I learned was that Ukraine has now developed an indigenous arms industry that has some spare capacity. So, actually, we should help them produce their own weapons. Ukraine also needs to marshal more recruits for the fight.
But, yes, I visited the Ukrainian city of Lviv, where a townhouse was destroyed by a Kalibr missile, with a Man watching his wife and three daughters being carried out dead. And that Kalibr missile was launched from a Russian bomber.
Tell me why Ukraine should not have the right to take out that bomber before it launches its missiles at civilian targets in Ukraine. I think the victim of aggression has every right to defend herself.
Geoff Bennett:
Have you shared that message with the U.S. State Department?
Radosław Sikorski:
Yes, I spoke about it publicly when Tony Blinken visited Warsaw last week.
Geoff Bennett:
And this is the matter that the U.S. has been weighing, whether Ukraine should have authority to use Western weapons to fire and aim artillery deeper into Russia.
The concern has always been the risk of escalation. How do you see it?
Radosław Sikorski:
Well, Ukraine should obey international huManitarian law, obviously. It should use our weapons to hit military targets.
But when you say escalation, what do you actually mean? Do you mean nuclear weapons? I think the U.S. has already read the riot act to Putin, along with China and India, that that is verboten. Other than that, tell me what Putin is not doing that he could do if he gets really, really angry.
I don’t believe such a thing exists.
Geoff Bennett:
What about Crimea? Crimea, of course, as you well know, was invaded and seized by Russia a decade ago. You have suggested that it be put under a U.N. Mandate. Why is that the right approach?
Because Ukrainian leaders say that Russia violated international law and that Russia should be held to account.
Radosław Sikorski:
No, I didn’t suggest that. It was President Zelenskyy who said that perhaps Ukraine will recover Crimea by diplomatic means.
And we had an off-the-record hypothetical discussion about how that could be achieved. No, we support Ukrainian, not only sovereignty, but inviolability of borders. Russia should get out of Ukraine, including out of Crimea.
Geoff Bennett:
Poland has been one of Ukraine’s staunchest supporters since this war started. How do you view Poland’s role in helping Ukraine reconstruct after this war?
Radosław Sikorski:
I believe Ukraine, if she loses — wins this war, will be boom time, because it’s inherently a rich country, rich soil, cheap energy from nuclear power plants, very good I.T. sector, and the most experienced army in Europe on the democratic side, very talented people.
But the E.U. will also help. We should use the frozen Russian assets. The aggressors should pay for the destruction they have wrought. And we will — we have a program of support in the E.U. of Ukraine. We have given them about 120 billion euros so far, more than the U.S., and there will be a program of reconstruction as well.
Geoff Bennett:
I’m sure you’re closely watching the U.S. election. Vice President Kamala Harris says she supports Ukraine in its fight with Russia. She says she’s committed to NATO. Donald TrumpTrump in that recent debate refused to say whether he wanted Ukraine to win. He has in the past said things that Many view as undermining NATO.
What is your perception of both Trump and Harris and how would their respective victories, what would that mean for the future of Ukraine and for the future of Poland?
Radosław Sikorski:
Well, thank you for this invitation to weigh into your internal politics, which I, of course, won’t do.
But I will be going to Michigan next week to thank the Polish Americans in Michigan for their support for the treaty to enlarge NATO. And I will tell them that the support for NATO in the United States continues to be very important.
Geoff Bennett:
Poland’s Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski, thanks again for your time.
Radosław Sikorski:
Thank you.